My incredibly adorable and insanely creative husband has been dreaming of a kayak pond since we first found this home. The day we put in a purchase offer, he came home, hopped on the internet and started searching for information - NOT about home repair or home ownership, but where to find the biggest, most bad-ass pump for his kayak pond.
Fast forward to a few days ago, when Brian decided to take his questions to the pond experts and posed this question to a newsgroup:
New pond with kayak-able waterfall??
Posted by Brian on Wed, Sep 22, 04 at 11:31
We're thinking of putting a pond in, and hope to get some advice. The area we're looking to put the pond is about 100' x 50' or so. We're in upstate NY, so it gets pretty cold. How deep do we need to make the pond to support fish and keep them from dying in the winter? Any idea on what the cost of a pond this size would be?
Ideally, I want to create a 4-6' waterfall that you could take a kayak over, and set it up either as a trough-type secondary pool or a natural pool that is fed from a large pump. I've seen something comparable at http://www.hydroenvironments.com/Portable.htm but don't know what sort of impact something like that could have on a pond.
Any idea how large a pump something like this might require? Would a pump/filter this size have an impact on the fish?
Any ideas would be VERY appreciated...
Thanks!!!
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RESPONSE BY Semper:
I must admit, if you are going to dream... DREAM BIG!!!
I am at work now and don't have access to my bookmarks on weir calculators, but I am certain that in order for this plan to work right you'll need a tremendous amount of water movement in order to feed a WIDE weir that has several inches of water. My guess is that the pump will need to be of SEVERAL horsepower magnitude. The cost of purchasing, wiring, and operating such beast would put it out of the reach of most mere mortals like myself. BUT if you do make this dream a reality, send me an invitation and I'll bring my Dagger up there and we'll do some backyard kayaking!!! :-)
Lunch break is over.
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RESPONSE BY Zinniachick:
How about a used bilge pump from an oceangoing vessel? That oughta do it. Whoosh! And you could install a warning horn like they have -- aaoooooga! :) I can really get behind this project.
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RESPONSE BY Semper:
You haven't lived till you reach mach 2 on a ROUGH section of Chattooga IV and all of the sudden your buddy falls out and as you hussle downstream to help him out, you get there just in time to see a water moccasin swim within inches of his head. Your first instinct tells you to use your paddle but then you realize that your "weapon" isn't all that discriminant between the enemy and your friend's noggin'! Yep, it's an experience I would recommend to...well... NO ONE that has all their marbles in place (hey, you people wanna go?!!!).
Zinniachick, what the heck are we drinking this evening?!! BTW, make mine a double! :-)
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RESPONSE BY Catson:
I checked out some of the specs to the site you mentioned in your post starter question.
1. PUMPS ( notice PLURAL) They are using TWO pumps that are EACH rated at: 480 volts each, 3 phase, No Amps given.
You can bet that these pumps will cost an arm and a leg and YOUR FIRST BORN to run for 30 minutes.
I checked one of my 3 phase motors in my shop and it uses 220 volts and 23 Amps.
So 220 X 23 =5060 watts X 3= 15180 watts so at $.10 per KWH you have $15.80 per HOUR to operate.
Yup per hour $ 15.80
Hope you have a good income.
But it does sound like a great dream.
Happy pondering.
Claude
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RESPONSE BY JVW:
What an idea. I'm with you too Semp. Your own Second Ledge in your back yard. Or maybe a Nantahala Falls.
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RESPONSE BY Zinniachick:
Think about it! You don't have to have that falls going like that all the time -- just when you're poised, paddle raised, to glide over the edge. So if you had, say, a submarine bilge pump, the one they can FILL that thing with water in seconds to take it down, then EMPTY it just as fast to surface, why, you'd be good to go! Suck the entire pond to the upper level, then hurl it over the ledge with you and your Dagger Blackwater on the crest. Oh, it works for me. *hic*
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RESPONSE BY Scott:
Flashpipe, seriously, if you really want to tackle a project like this, then consider talking to an engineer who specializes in water rides. They should be able to tell you exactly what you need to do to make this happen. Just do a Google search for "water ride engineers." You could also do a search for just "water rides" and see if you come up with any helpful info. I don't think any of us could really help you much with your idea. We are not use to anything of that magnitute and that includes me and my mega plans.
Good luck,
Scott
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RESPONSE BY Brian:
WOW!! Great feedback...it's sounding less and less feasible (at least for my budget)...although I kind of like the idea of filling a secondary pool and then releasing it for a waterfall...I wonder what it might take to create a playhole and if that would be more reasonable than a waterfall...
We've got lots of whitewater within 30-45 minutes, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to go play right in the backyard?
My neighbor just filled his 1-acre pond to put in a par 3 golf course...I'm just trying to keep up with the Jones'.
Ah, we can all dream...
Thanks for the ideas, and I'd love to hear any others! I'll post back up when we figure out what we're doing...
Thanks again!!
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RESPONSE BY Scott:
Flashpipe, keeping up with the Jones's means that your checking account keeps up with theirs.
Happy ponding,
Scott
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RESPONSE BY Semper:
flashpipe wrote:
"it's sounding less and less feasible (at least for my budget)..."
*HIC* No, NO, NO!!! *HIC* Don't listen to these reality embracing & "glass half empty" bunch. Am I the only INsane person who realizes you are sitting on an absoulte gold mine? Imagine if you will, the hoards of people who will anxiously line up past your house to take a shot at the the soon to be infamous Wacky Whitewater Watergarden Waterfalls (WW IV). Although you COULD go with a properly sized axial flow pump as 2 of the better GW members suggested, don't do it! Think overkill: *HIC*
(Doing my best Will Smith - Men in Black impression)
Now that's what I'm talking about!
The beauty of this setup is that it can cater to whitewater enthusiasts, weekend warriors, and city slickers alike. Just turn a ball valve and you can go from class IV rapids to Class II fun without leaving your backyard. Plus don't forget all the royalties and proceeds from the "I survived WW IV" T-shirts, waders, hats, buttons, etc.... I've got one word for you: CHA-CHING! Or is that 2 words?? Hmmmm... *HIC* But I digress...
In conclusion, you have our utmost financial, intellectual, moral support throughout this project. So don't dilly dally and let's get started. Keep us updated on your progress and don't forget them VIP (Very Intoxicated Ponders?) invitations. *HIC*
HEY, Garçon!!! I'm empty here... Garçon!!! Geez those French!
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RESPONSE BY Poppa:
Okay FlashPipe... You've a few things to learn. The first lesson is: If you're just trying to keep up with the Jonses, then you have already lost the game. The joneses are always going to look at you as a catch up, and while you are struggling to keep up, they're going to be working on their next move to put you back in your place. What you need to do then, is to OUT DO the jonses by several orders of magnitude.
Look, if you're worried about the cost, you can hang this up already. You are sounding like you are probably in your sixties, planning on this little kayak slide of yours. What you need is a full sized slalom course where you can challenge your neighbors and beat the pants off them. Maybe you can't use it every day, but two or three times a year you can release water from your upper lake for a few hours of real fun!...
Ok, ok, maybe you don't have room for a holding lake, then go for the cool factor. Yeah, kayaking down an 8 foot water fall is cool the first 3 times you do it, but how are you going to hold onto your beer? Did ja think of that? Your neighbor, drinking on his golf course is going to laugh everytime you try the stupid thing and you have to let go of your beer (and do you know how much algae will grow in those bottles sitting at the bottom of your pond?).
Much more sensible to get an inflatable orca complete with cup holders and just spend your time lounging in the sun. At least with a beer in your hand your gonna look like a real man.
ok, so you are determined to show joe golfer up. Here's something to consider. A catapault! Set it up in the front yard so you can launch yourself OVER THE HOUSE and into the pond. Now that's impressive, and if your neighbor sees you drop your beer in mid-flight, at least he's going to acknowledge that that was probably a sensible thing for you to do at the moment.
Poppa Jones
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RESPONSE BY Zinniachick:
"At least with a beer in your hand your gonna look like a real man." Ahhh hahahaaaa!
A dam! A catapult! And those pumps, Semper! These are chuffing excellent ideas! I LOVE this thing, this whitewater pond. You know you're onto something when even GOD never thought of it before.
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RESPONSE BY Brian:
WOW!!! Now things are getting interesting...the catapult thing would be PERFECT, especially since my other neighbor finished his industrial potato launcher earlier this summer. It's hooked up to his air compressor, and launches these concrete pucks that he made more than 1/4 mile...This'll show him!!
Hmm...maybe I should start looking into a way to re-direct the nearest stream/river through our property...that would solve all my water problems...
Thanks!!!
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Comment from the amused wifey: I guess it's a bit of a comfort to know there are people out there who are *more* insane than my adorable hubby is.
Peace, till next